OK, I have a few corrections to make. first, my Mom didn't go to St. Bernard's until 9th grade, and then for only one year. My Mom also says that while her explanation of the effects of Vatican II on the neighborhood is correct, it is only one piece of the puzzle.
I borrowed my parent's book entitled "The Makings of St. David's" (1959) which gives some history of the neighborhood. It all started with a farm Mrs. David Trombley donated in 1919. The parish was named St. David (as in St. David of Wales) in honor of her late husband. At that time, there were only two houses on the dirt road Outer Blvd. (now Outer Drive). Until 1918 Gratiot was a toll plank road, at the rate of 4 cents per horse.
I am not sure when all the houses in the neighborhood were built. I remember we used to play a game when we were kids. We'd walk around a block and try to find the earliest date imprinted on sidewalk squares. It seems like I would remember the dates, having walked over the sidewalks so many times. I vaguely remember 1910 being the oldest that I ever saw in our neighborhood, but I can't be sure now. I do remember a bunch of 1918's. But within a block there were many dates. I wonder if they'd only pour the sidewalk in front of a new house as it was being built, rather than make a sidewalk for a whole block at once?
Goodale Elementary (the public school serving the neighborhood, which was torn down within the last year or two) was built in 1926. St. David's school (picture above, April 2006) opened in 1924 (well, the first half of the school, the right side). A picture showing the broundbreaking for the new church and school dated December 6, 1923 also shows my grandparent's house in the background, 11768 Kilbourne. The addition to the school (left part) was completed in the summer 1925. The convent opened in 1926. In 1927 there were 522 students enrolled in the grade school, and had 38 high schoolers. In 1926, De La Salle high school opened up (for boys) and the St. David's high school reverted to women-only. The cornerstone for the new church building was laid October 12, 1947, with the first mass December 19, 1948. In 1946 there were over 2,900 families in the parish with 1,700 children of school age. About 570 were not attending a catholic school, so St. Ignatius was built then. The rectory was finished in March, 1949. In 1955 there were 2,400 families. The new high school opened in September 1959, with an enrollment of about 400.
I wonder what the parish boundaries were back in those days? It would be interesting to count the houses within those boundaries and calculate the density of neighborhood families who belonged to St. David's.
But it is clear from reading this book (dated 1959) that the parish was very vibrant, with many committee and groups within the parish. Even my grandpa Bieke, who wasn't much of a church-goer before moving to Wilshire Street, became active in the church, leading the Youth Group for many years.
Looking through the book one can see the evidence of our family:
There is a photo of Monsignor Stitt with several children, including my Aunt Roseanne (she is about 9 or 10 in the photo).
There is a photo of Monsignor Stitt breaking ground for the new high school, May 8, 1958, with my Uncle Inky one of the students in the background.
A photo of the first grade class of 1959, with my Uncle George in it.
A mention of my Unlce Tom, on a list of parishoners who became Christian Brothers.
My Grandpa Goeddeke on what appears to be a telephone tree (number 15, at LA 7-1752).
My Grandpa Goeddeke again listed as the Institutional Representative for the Boy Scout Troop 42.
My Grandpa Goeddeke listed as the first Cubmaster of Cub Scout Pack 42 (of which I was a member!) with 10 dens in 1947. (I think my Dad later became the Cubmaster or maybe Committee Chairman or something like that, and my Mom was my Den Mother for one year too.)
My great-great grandfather's nephew, Joseph A. Bieke, is listed as director of the rosary making club.
My grandpa Vince Goeddeke as President of the Booster Club. (He was still doing this when I attended St. David's - he drove the bus on the end-of-school-year field trips to Belle Isle, Stony Creek, etc.)
My Uncle George listed as a "Senior Server" altar boy.
My grandpa Goeddeke is in a group photo of ushers, and is also shown in another photo of 5 ushers counting the money from the collection of a mass.
My Aunt Mary in a photo of a nun showing three students how to open a stove door in a home economics class in the high school.
My grandpa and grandma Bieke listed as patrons, as was Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Bieke from the above description.
My grandma and grandpa Goeddeke listed as patrons, as was Mr. & Mrs. Joseph Goeddeke (my Dad's uncle and aunt).
There were 5 priests in 1959, with 6 Sunday masses. In 1981 there were 2 priests in 3 sunday masses (including the saturday evening mass).
White flight is nothing new to the neighborhood. The children of the first couple that was married at St. David's, in 1922, now (in 1959?) live in Flint and Walled Lake. The family of the first baptism (1922) moved to Midland in 1937.
I just wonder, if St. David's was such a great parish and in such a great neighborhood (which every person I've ever talked to says it was), why didn't Monsignor Stitt tell everyone in a sermon not to leave, but to stand your ground and don't move? If he did, why didn't everyone listen?
My grandparents moved to Whithorn (Between Gunston & Elmo) in 1953. My dad attended St. David Grade school and graduated from De La Salle.
ReplyDeleteMy grandfather stayed on Whithorn until 1984 and wanted to try staying until retirement in the late 1980's. He received no reward for staying in terms of personal safety or money for selling that house. My grandfather was third from the last of long time residents in leaving.
However, in their neighborhood a sudden panic did not occur following the riots. Gradually, the neighborhood situation changed until 1976 and then dramatically changed in the following years for the worst. The streets like Wilshire, Promenade, Chelsea, Rosemary (more affluent part of the parish) changed first because many of those residents had the economic means to leave before others.
i lived on christy between gunston and elmo..christy ave was the first street for our lady of good council parish findley went to st david...i was born in 1953 and graduated from de la salle in 1971
DeleteMy family lived at Whithorn and Elmo from the late 1920s or early 1930s. My oldest brother and sister went to St. David’s grade school and my sister went to its high school. Eight or nine years ago, I drove along Whithorn on an early morning during bitter cold weather and took pictures. I wish I could post them here. It was just sad. Our old house was still standing, but empty. The houses of all our immediate neighbors were gone. On the whole street, there were very few inhabited homes – most were either burned out hulls or just vacant lots. Surprisingly, just one block over on Sanford, most of the houses were still there and were inhabited. The street looked pretty good. I suspect the reason was that most of the houses on Sanford were brick, while most of the houses on Whithorn were frame.
DeleteDo you know what order of Nuns taught at St Davids High School?My wife Mary Kaspari went there,Grad 1954, along with her twin sister Mildred and Carl,"Bubby" and Danny ,Jimmy, Kathy. I knew a Frank Goeddeke,ST Joes Commercial College, who was a friend of mine and the Kaspari's.Mary passed away this past week. Would appreciate a reply asap if possible......Thanks........Brent Biehl bbiehl@lighthouse.net
ReplyDeleteSisters of St. Joesph
DeleteI think there was a lot more to it than White Flight. My father raised us on Promenade and died in 1981--still on Promenade. Our home--which we never locked while I was growing up--was broken into three times in 1979. Crack came around. The auto companies moved well paid, low-skilled jobs to southern states, Mexico, etc....no more (or very few) good paying unskilled jobs left. It's like that now. More so. It wasn't so much who moved out as who had to stay, Whites and Blacks with no jobs and no money. And drugs up and down the block. So what do you do, sell crack or work at McDonalds?) I think it's a very complex and very sad situation. And I've thought about it a lot. The black families that moved out are as nostialgic about the old neighborhoods as I am.
ReplyDeleteI wrote a whole lot of shit and it disappear because I selected a profile - hate these sites that are not user friendly - venting, I'll wait another day be4 I type again
ReplyDeleteI was born in Roseville Michigan, we moved to very northern to very northern Minnesota before I was was 1 year old. my family moved back to Detroit in 1954 and I left in 1961 to join the service and never went back to live live there. growing up as a teen during the late 1950's was quite an education! I became very glad I had learned to fight growing up in rural Minn. north woods. To wrestle or box was something we did during recess at school, very seldom was there a fight in anger or to protect one's self. In Detroit we lived in the Mack ave & St jean area. I was witness to the "Neighborhood" changing from a place where folks could walk down the street at night for enjoyment and not fear for their safety, everyone knew the beat police officer by name and the houses were cared for, to a dangerous unkempt place and I would not walk the street unarmed.
ReplyDeleteI personally blame this rapid drastic change on one thing. In the early and mid 1950 Detroit had a Mayor who was going to clean up the slum area next to down town Detroit. The area was known as the Hasting St area. It was in fact a very dangerous place. He seen to it that for several square miles of this area be condemned and razed. He nor anyone else thought of where the people of that area would go to live. a large number of the people were extremely poor and while the "city fathers" apparently assumed they would leave Detroit. the problem was instead spread across the rest of the city and into other "Neighborhoods". A large number of these people were on welfare and only cared about having a Saturday night out fit and money to drink. their houses went quickly to shambles and their 6 kids fought over the 4 or 5 pork chops or chitlins that were given them for supper. These kids had little chance for any success in life. They seen kids with parent who cared and understandably wanted what they had. The only way they seen to get it was take it or steal for it.
What is really sad about this is it had happened in the past and people didn't learn and even more sadly it is is now happening on a national level. I can only hope we open our eyes and get people in charge who want to build up, not tear down, give a "true" hand up not a handout.
I am politically independent person, I will help you move but don't sit back and expect me to do it for you.
I am the St Jean & Mack Anonymous. I forgot to mention I went to St. Bernard 6th thru the 9th grades, besides my dad the Nun's, Priest and Lay Teachers taught me to learn everything I could in life because I would never know what I might need to survive. At my older brothers suggestion I qualified and enrolled at Wilbur Wright Technical H.S. Taking a bus through downtown to E. Grand River & Canfield I past through What looked like a bombed out town and watched as they demolished buildings one after the other. I did return to Detroit in 1964, they were building highrise apartment's with rents no middle class wage could afford. I'd bet they are slums today. the journey through that area 5 days a week and the environment of Wilbur Wright took a toll on my school grades and I quit school after the 11th grade. I had been blessed by being given a photographic memory and would quickly get bored in class, this allowed me to pass Electronics Tech course the tests for my GED in the service with in 2 years.
ReplyDeletewhen I went back I went to work for Chrysler and went directly into prep to become a foreman. Only 88 days after
I had left the Navy I re-enlisted, thing mainly "let me out of here". In service I traveled the world, living in Spain for 3 years I traveled all over Europe, I also lived in Korea for 13 Months. The only ocean I missed (WoW) was the Indian.
and work as an electronic engineer after service.
Thank God for Sister Patrice for scaring the heck out of me when seen to it that for 8th grade graduation that I was voted most likely to succeed in organized crime.
I've made a lot of mistakes and lot more was involved in shaping my life, but going to St. Bernard was a blessing.
I love my country and the Lord, They are in my heart not just my head. May you also be blessed as you trudge the road to a happy destiny.
I grew up on Hilger St near Mack and St Jean and left in 1965 to go into the Army. I went to St Bernard's for all 12 years and it certainly gave me a good base to start my career.
DeleteWe could not afford to move out. To see what has happened there, makes me concerned for our grandkids future. Detroit is an example of what is going wrong in the U.S. today. Entitlement is the problem and makes it too easy to stay in bed.
I realize that people do need help once in while, however we are raising generations of GIVE ME's and they don't contribute to society.
I hope that the voters wake up now before it is too late before we become another 3rd world country.
My mother born 1921 lived at 3489 Hilger Ave in Detroit East Side. She went to Lillibrook School in her early years. Do you know if all the homes on Hilger are still standing or gone.
DeleteMy mother, Margaret Little, lived at 3449 Hillger, Detroit. She was born in 1921 and went to Lillibrook School. Her childhood home is gone. Her parents lived there till they died in the mid 60s. One of her friends was a girl named Rogers who lived on the same street. I think drugs was the downfall of the area. Sad because in the 20-50s it was still a nice neighborhood.
DeleteI am not from Detroit but my husband of 34 years was born there and lived on Flanders two blocks from the airport. He went to St. David's school and talked about the church as being beautiful. He lived there until 1976 (he was 16) when his father retired and they moved to the thumb. He often talked about his street being alive with kids. They played baseball in an empty lot down the street and had a great time. It is hard for him to see Detroit in it present state.
ReplyDeleteMy family moved from Flanders in 1976 also. It was a wonderful neighborhood with a melting pot of nationalities. I have fond memories of neighbors with large families, everyone getting along. I was only six when we left but stayed in touch because my grandmother bought our house. She lived there till she retired in 1985 from Grace Hospital. By then, robbery, drug selling was becoming so common. Good people had no other choice but to leave. So sad. All of her (our old) neighbors were leaving one by one...she could not stay...it was no longer safe.
ReplyDeleteI lived at 12131 Promenade from 1954 till 1962 went to St. David from 1st throw 7th grade. It was a great place to live. I have great memories.
ReplyDelete11208 Elmdale was my dads address. I rmemebr going to church at St DAvids with my grnadma. Yes the neighborhood was beautiful. Not no more. My brother lives on Elmdale and it is a disaster. Shootings and everything falling down. Sad
ReplyDeleteWe moved to Loretto and Dickerson in 1960 and walked to St David every day with my sister! I was looking for the St David address so that I could find the walking distance for my grand-kids, they have it so bad, LOL
ReplyDeleteMy name is Tom Balgenorth, DAV USN Ret. I went to St. David Elementary School up until the 8th grade in 1964. My father and stepmother and half brothers lived on Promenade St three blocks down from the school. Very clean and safe neighborhood back then. Now 45 years later it looks like Beirut circa 1980!I went back in 73 after a tour of duty and visited Sister Vernard, my 8th grade teacher whom I never forgot. All these years and wars I never forgot my 8th grade crush on Stephanie C. email: balgenorth@charter.net
ReplyDeleteMy family lived on Maiden from 1969 to 74 we went to st. Ignatius School it was a great neighborhood but yes by 1978 It changed for the worst now when I drive by I don't even recognize that very sad
ReplyDeleteDetroit is a failed social experiment. The stuff the priests and nuns tried to teach us was true: Without obeyance of God's law, and without strong family, destruction is assured.
ReplyDeleteWhat's with all the anonymous postings. I think if you can't put your name dowm, well I'm just saying.
ReplyDeleteI went to Start David's elementary only for the 6th grade, came from St. Juliana's. I lived on Glenfield. 2 years later, I went to the former St. David's high school, but, it was bought by Detroit public school by that time (1980). It was called Rosa Parks middle school. It was a very nice school. I'm sure the former st David's high school students had a good time.
ReplyDeleteHello neighborhood pals I lived on Promenade between Barrett and Gunston from 1965-1975. I remember walking to St.David's for Sunday mass. Does anyone remember the Promenade park or Rays market? How about roller skating on Monday and Friday nights at Our Saviour church on Elmdale and Dickerson. There was Macomb elementary school, then Goodale Jr. high then off to Denby High. Nice chatting with you, please respond with your memories. RSC
ReplyDeleteHello !
DeleteI do have great memories from our neighborhood...moved to 9710 Roseberry in 1960; attended Goodale for 1st grade; Catechism classes for 1 year at St Iggy's; St Ignatius from 2nd to 8th grade/ class of 1969; got accepted to St David's for H.S. but the morning I was scheduled for my uniform fitting I received a letter saying they were closing the H.S. side of the building; chose Denby (class of 1973 June) over Dominican & Regina; used to buy Winstons for my dad at Ray's when I bought milk & bread. Took my 3 nephews to the playground across from Ray's then to get candy for the walk home. LOVED skating at Our Savior Lutheran 2 x/ week & Vacation Bible School with Karen Sikora. Forced bussing started in 1974 and we moved out in 1975. Neither race wanted forced bussing. My dad, Paul Fink, was taking a physical inventory in a "mom & pop" grocery store when the riots broke out (partly started by a raid on a "blind pig", red-lining, unequal pay, discrimination, etc). A very big & complex social justice issue with many factors but no unknowns...we had a charmed childhood...but a tad "filtered". Do you think ???
We still love Belle Isle and visit often (1955 to present).
great neighborhood, knew everyone, great times, don't know if anyone will see this, went to school with your Aunt Roseanne, gone from this world too soon, was in Grand Rapids with your Uncle Dave, My older brother played football with your Uncle George, lived on Longview was grandfathered into St. Davids cause most of the Kid's on the block went to St Ignatius know the neighborhood well and knew people from a wide area because of kids going to different schools! Life goes by too fast!! Bob "Stack" Stachowski
ReplyDeleteHi, Anyone know the publisher of the Makings of St. David's? Trying to find a copy. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteBarbara Yazbeck, 12 years school, graduated 1963. Lived on Outer Drive. Brothers: Simon, Robert, Clyde. Family friends: Kaspari, Thomas, Goeddeke, Bieke, Mantueffel, Pianello, Kane, Chaundy, Bianchinni, Weir, Therrien, Cronin, Molitor, lots more!
ReplyDeleteThe kids were mean and nasty both at St. Davids and Goodale. They made my life a living hell. Glad to leave in 1976.
ReplyDelete